Written by: Livio | Livio shares his views about IceCaves.net's layout's issues, its navigation problems, and how to fix them.
Last December, I began to put serious effort into designing a new layout for my website, and this got me thinking a lot about the subtleties of web design. Since then, I've noticed a lot of things that I don't like about IceCaves.net's layout, and I'm going to post all my complaints here so that hopefully other webmasters can learn from them.
And by the way, no offense to my brother Haily, who made this current layout.
Confusing Navigation
Unlike many of IceCaves' active members, I am not used to the current layout and its form of navigation, which means that I can look at it from the point of view of a newcomer. And I have to say that it's just plain confusing. What makes it confusing is that as you move through the site, links change and move around. Traveling between IC's departments makes the black quick links in the header change, the links at the top of the page that link to the other departments move around, and the sidebar displays an entirely different set of links. The result is that if you are completely new to the site, you could very easily get lost.
With navigation being the most important part of any website, more thought needs to be put into keeping it simple. This issue is so complicated that it's actually the result of several different things, which I will address individually in the following next sections.
The Problem with Departments
The first step to fixing the navigation issues is to redefine the core organization of the site's major sections. Right now, IceCaves is divided among its several departments, with each department in its own sub-domain with their own sections and links and layout tweaks, almost as if they could be their own independent sites. However, to the user it is very unclear that there even is a department system. Look at the top of the page, the links to the departments are in a super-tiny font size, as if you weren't expected to travel between departments very frequently. But in fact, during a typical visit, the user may pass through several different departments in just a few clicks. Because of this, the user may become overwhelmed by the seemingly unnecessary changes in navigation.
I know the header changes are meant to clearly state which department you're in, but to be honest, I rarely notice these changes, and it's probably partly because no one would expect it to change.
To fix this problem, you need to turn these departments into mere categories. To get an idea of what I mean, look at CNN.com. They too divide their site among different sections, but these are clearly listed at the top of the page and there are no major changes when you switch between these categories.
The Sidebar
I think you try to link to too many pages at once. It's useful how it only shows the links necessary to the department your in, but it's simply impractical to show all those links there. No one's going to be very excited to read through all of that either. Perhaps it would be interesting to only link to a few pages, and have those pages link to all subsequent, less important pages.
Also, it's not very clear that clicking on those banners on the sidebar will expand to more links. The average user might mistake them for large buttons of the site's sections, and because of this, they will be further confused when they see that those links change. And there's not even an alternative for those who have JavaScript disabled.
The Top of the Page
I don't really like the top of the page. The banner images are interesting, but there's too much contrast. I found myself liking the banner for the Blog department the most, simply because it was so smooth and simple to look at and it had good white space. In comparison, the other banners hurt my eyes, and they make that area look more cluttered. I also don't really understand what the online members box is doing there.
The black quick links at the bottom of the header should really be used to link to the major sections of the site, as I suggested before.
But the thing I hate the most about the top of the page is that tiny text. You have the links to the major sections of the site AND the log in/register buttons there. It's as if you're discouraging these things, especially when they are probably the most important and most used links on the site.
Images and backgrounds
Like I said before, some of the backgrounds on the site have too much contrast. This creates eye-strain and brings the background to the foreground, where it clearly doesn't belong. A perfect example of this is the banner image of the homepage. There are also images used where solid color may have been sufficient, or even better.
Here's an interesting example: scroll down to the very bottom of the page. The bottom-most line of text can be pretty hard to read because of the background image behind. Not to mention the fact that there's already a ton of links to affiliates crammed in that little area, the background images of the surrounding banners add even more contrast and weight to the area, when what they should be doing is providing breathing room while simultaneously acting as a separator. Now compare that to the dark gray horizontal banners surrounding the advertisement nearby. Ironically, this looks much better than the blue images that you have surrounding the affiliate links.
Needs Some Breathing Room
And finally, everything kinda feels cluttered. This is because of a number of things: background images tend to act like their in the foreground, everything seems to be crammed into their areas, and there just isn't much spacing between elements. At least it doesn't feel super-cluttered, but it could use some improvement.
Some Final Thoughts
If there's anything I learned while redesigning my site's layout, is that web design is not easy. More than half of the skill is to merely be able to recognize the problems with your design. Even if you can do that, you'll then have to deal with dilemma after dilemma.
With all of this stuff said, it's pretty clear that this layout is broken beyond repair. It would be interesting to redesign the layout from scratch, but that is something that Haily isn't very motivated to do because it doesn't seem to him like such a drastic problem, even though I hope that I have just proven the severity of the situation.
However, if any of you have any ideas on what a new layout should be like, please discuss them in the comments below.
| Written by: Livio | Added: Feb 23 2010 | Last Modified: Feb 23 2010 | Views: 489 | (Log in to rate) |
Member Comments
I have to agree with the whole navigation thing. When I first joined I had no idea what I was doing. And it took me at least a week to figure out you could click the banners in the sidebar. I simply thought they were for decoration.
I don't really see a problem with the background though.
I agree with Puffs about the background, though I don't think the navigation is a problem: I had no trouble figuring it out. Maybe I'm just strange though. Your points do seem reasonable, it's just I never had any problem. XD
Like the others, I don't have any issues with the background. I find the navigation pretty simple to use, although I can understand that a newcomer would probably get confused.
Ha, "broken beyond repair" is certainly not something I would dub this layout. I do see various details that could receive some attention, but the overall layout is still an effective layout.
The navigation could really use some tweaks to make it easier to browse the website. But I strongly disagree that the issue is as severe as Livio portrays it to be.
I agree with the navigation problem. Also, I'm more fond of slimmer layouts, so I feel the Icecaves layout is too wide.
Nice critique overall. ^^
I actually strongly agree with the points about navigation. Although, it no longer confuses me, I have to admit it does appear rather daunting. Really, I don't think to list all the articles and stock photos etc in the sidebar is at all necessary. And about the image headers, perhaps varying them a bit more so people are more sure of when they are crossing departments.
@silhouette To be honest, I think that using a slimmer layout in IC would be a huge disaster. There's too just too much "stuff", for lack of a better term and it would appear even more cluttered.
I think the IC layout fits perfectly in my screen. I don't think the navigation or sidebar is a problem. One thing that I would like to see improved is the loading time. It isn't too much of an issue but it would be nice to see.
I don't think the background creates eye-strain, it's fine as it is. No, the layout isn't broken beyond repair. You can still repair it. Start with the minor issues & work your way slowly up.
I think this review was a bit exaggerated to be honest, but it was interesting to see what someone else thought of it.
I must agree with everyone who thought this review was a little overexaggerated. Brotherly competition, anyone?
I agree the navigation is a little confusing, especially to a newcomer (that was me about six months ago ) I like the sidebar navigation - and although the sidebar is a little cluttered I find it helpful, and would be hard put to choose anything on there that I would remove. The sidebar is quite compact and condensed with all the navigation minimized, as well.
As for clutter, Icecaves is a very content-heavy site, and a minimalistic layout with plain backgrounds, large navigation and small amounts of text would never work for it, and I for one admire the new look of the homepage and the seamless way that everything fits into it.
The background is fine to me. It's in muted tones, not eyeburning or in stark contrast, and to be honest it doesn't jump to the foreground - the most attention grabbing section of the page is the considerably lighter content field, as was probably Haily's intent upon designing it. And although I have to admit that the Blog department's banner background is my favourite, I have no problem with the main background on the home page. As the main banner of the site I think it stands out sufficiently, and no designer likes a low contrast, monochromatic layout with a complete lack of emphasis on any items.
While I'm here, I'm just going to voice the fact that I've never liked the header backgrounds on this site (above and below posts, etc.) But just because I don't particularly like it doesn't mean it needs fixing. It's tolerable and if I want to style headers then I'll do that on my own site.
So really, the only problem with this layout that I think is anywhere near major is the top navigation, which can be quite confusing at times. I feel like this review was a little exaggerated - this layout is definitely not 'broken beyond repair.' All Livio's comments, while valid and fair to make, are either very minor or issues of personal taste, and all in all I think the layout works well.
Phew. Okay, I feel like I just wrote my own review And I'm supposedly on hiatus... Procrastination, once again, has gotten the better of me. In closing, I'd just like to ask, is the new layout mentioned for the Interguild the current one, or one still to come (I'm not familiar with the interguild) If it's the one currently on the site, there are quite a few similar points I could make about it.
Anyhow, cheers I'm off to finish my homework.
I haven't commented on anything on Icecaves in a while. How sad. Anyways, I honestly don't think this layout is bad, in any way at all. But I must agree on one point,
Quote:
Traveling between IC's departments makes the black quick links in the header change, the links at the top of the page that link to the other departments move around, and the sidebar displays an entirely different set of links.
. It is a bit confusing, but other than that, this review is definitely over-exaggerated. xD My only issue would be the speed of the pages, of course, I never knew that this was caused by Google. Having Google ads on every page, when Google doesn't work for you, makes the page run like, twenty times slower. Dx I figured this out when I fixed Google - IC ran so much faster ! Still - the code could be improved. But, honestly, I actually love IC's layout.. it fits the theme.. and.. I just like it xD
Yeah, I probably presented these faults too seriously, but they still need fixing. The reason I said it's "broken beyond repair" is because I think you're better off designing a new layout rather than trying to fix this one. Some of these problems are based on core issues like the navigation setup and trying to have too much stuff everywhere. It would be very hard and constricting to try to fix these things if you limit yourself to only moving things around.
I agree with most of it. But the thing is, slim layouts really limit on content. Ive owned several sites, and right now about half of them have slim layouts, but its easier to use layouts are 1,000 pixels wide. Now adays, if you dont have a monitor that cant handle 1000 pixels, all I can say is get off of your time machine and come back from 1950.
But I still fumble with the navigation, I think Stock Photos should be in the Webmaster section, because thats where I always click.
I personally do like the layout, and thats coming from someone who has coded well over 100 layouts. Its a nice layout. Haily did a good job on it.
I agree it needs a bit of breathing room, I think itd be great if a few things were even more collapse-able. I know the banner ads (not the 150x150 or whatever they are ads but the ones at the bottom) could collapse.
but overall I think the layout is fabulous
@Livio Fair enough. I think that although it's possible to fix the layout, Haily'd save himself a lot of headache by starting a-fresh as usually the case. Fixing means hours of scouring through code which isn't always worth it. Plus, re-organizing it is a lot harder than it sounds. You kinda need to plan it all out first and get the basic idea formulated. It's easier to plan something new on a fresh piece of paper.
The problem I see with starting from scratch is that I don't want to devote so much time into beginning with an entirely new design and layout.
I have definitely been working the past few days on ideas in which I can improve the overall site navigation, which is the primary problem with the site right now. Here's what I have so far. What do you think of it? http://www.icecaves.net/indextest.php
The navigation has been shifted entirely to the top header of the site with a new CSS-only drop down menu script made with http://purecssmenu.com. On the sidebar, I added some links to some articles of the site which will hopefully encourage new and old visitors alike to explore what we have to offer. Links no longer change when you switch departments, the links at the top can be considered as a site map--everything can be found through there, and the log in area is now more prominent on the page encouraging more visitors to log in or create an account. You can also take a look at it in another browser to see the page when you are logged out of an account.
Well, do you think we still need to start with a new layout from scratch, or this enough? Is there anything else I could possibly tweak on the layout?
One last thing, the biggest headache was getting IE to read this layout properly--to read CSS (of all things) properly. The drop down menus were the only things I couldn't fix, but I think I can fix it eventually. I just have to backtrack on my modifications to the code because it was IE-compatible when I downloaded it. >.<
Now THAT is spiffily awesome navigation And I love the 'Your Account' section being in the sidebar. Epic You definitely don't need to start a new layout from scratch, I think in the case of a large site like IC you are better off just tweaking the current layout.
With the new layout (http://www.icecaves.net/indextest.php) it feels like the sidebar has been cleared of the navigation, but is still as bulky, filled with less necessary things. Why not move the featured/newest articles modules taking up the top of the sidebar to somewhere else, then move up the Chat Box and the recently visited pages which are what most members use the sidebar for. Then if it looks to empty, pad it up with some extra advertising spaces at the bottom?
And as Hamsterz said, you could even make some things on the sidebar collapsible so that the sidebar is more compact and efficient to use
Haily, honestly right now Im saying screw IE, but IE likes me for the time being.
Anyways, I love the new layout too. It still takes a second to find the forum, but other then that, its perfect
Possibly a wider sidebar. That sidebar just looks too squished although I have to admit, I'm a fan of spacy sidebars. I'd prefer the main department links at the top to be still bigger or in some way more noticeable.
I love it Haily!!! It's much better than the navigation now.
I'm a little reserved about widening the sidebar, but I'm open to it. How wide do you recommend? Right now it's at 150px. I considered doubling it 300px, but what would I show in the sidebar? Ad space is always an option.
I don't necessary need it doubled. Overkill, mate. But it'd be nice to have just more padding all around. And for the lists, I think they need to be more spaced out as well.
I usually try to make the sidebar at least 200px wide. You can get what you need in there, and still have some room left over for padding and spacing.
The contrasting opinions on the current layout was interesting to read. I would share what I think...but it's already been said ; )
And don't worry, Haily - you can always experiment with a new look. And if it doesn't work, just go back to what's safe ;D
I'll see if I can release the testing layout today after some extra tweaks. The only problem is that I can't figure out how to get the dropdown menus to work in IE. >.< Whether I use the CSS or JavaScript menus, either way, I'll have to make it so that there's an alternative to the dropdown menus. Once I get that set up, I'll be able to release it.
You don't need to double the sidebar, I agree with Kyra about it being at least 200px but then again it's working fine at the moment.
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